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Germany, Resources, especially Food

The operations, history and battles of the Axis forces in WWI and WWII.

Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby etprescottaz91 » Fri Jul 30, 2010 11:47 pm

Just 90 minutes before Germany began there attack on Russia Operation Barbarossa on June 22nd 1941, the Germans waited for the last of the long Soviet grain trains to pass over the River Bug safely into German territory. As I was reading about the opening of the campaign in Russia and just how desperate Germany was for resources to support its day to day economy especially in regards to food production I was shocked, Germany imported most of its food. The same thought came to mind that I had when I wrote about Japan and Steel, what could Germany have been thinking, desperate enough for food they wait to fire their opening shot in order ensure a single shipment of grain passes. Clearly the day to day people that ran the country were afraid to tell Hitler the truth regarding Germany's desperate lack of resources or way overly optimistic of there chances for complete victory over the Russians.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby Junk Yard Dog » Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:54 am

This is what you get when you have lunatics running a government, they truly thought they could win based solely on their "political, and racial superiority" They believed their own propaganda about the "weak, inept, subhuman , Slav" as history has shown they were mistaken. Germany almost starved to death in 1919 because no food was getting in to the country, they may very well owe their survival to the aid of Herbert Hoover who organized food shipments to feed starving German ( and Russian) children. How quickly they forgot.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby klibben » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:56 am

Just like the Japanese, (only not as desperate of a situation yet) they struck Russia for two things primarily: the huge oil fields and the massive wheat growing regions (primarily ukraine). Had they been a bit more conservative about their blitzkrieg across Russia they may have actually been successful. However, they pushed too far too hard and got trapped on the outskirts of Stalingrad during the winter with only half their army (the panzer divisions had swung south to capture the oil fields). Had they waited for Stalingrad, or took it with their full force... they probably would have succeeded. Still, it's a miracle for the Russians that they didn't succeed... the Germans were extremely successfully in taking Stalingrad but were simply worn down by the wave after wave of Russian soldiers. Had the winter not resulted in supply convoys unable to reach the German forces at Stalingrad I am confident in claiming the Germans would not have been defeated there. By the time the Sixth Army surrendered they no longer a threat anyways... clothes completely disintegrated by lice, starved for months, severe frostbite on nearly the entire body, completely demoralized, and so weak that in many cases rats would chew off parts of their body (fingers, hands, even feet) with the soldiers unable to stop them (so many rats, plus the soldiers were so weak... and often they didn't feel it because they were frostbitten).

I highly suggest reading Enemy at the Gates: The Battle for Stalingrad by William Craig. It's the first book to put a human face on the battle, and goes in depth with all the problems both sides faced (including absurd demands by their leaders). You really get a sense of how out of touch Hitler was with reality and sensibility. The Germans could have easily withdrawn, regrouped, and retaken the city successfully but Hitler demanded no retreat whatsoever.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby bunkysdad » Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:12 am

So many things went against the Germans once the hard winter set in. The inadequate clothing, lack of supply reinforcements, the bombed buildings became reinforcements for the Russians in the street fighting. And the civilians ordered to stay and fight, or be killed.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby Junk Yard Dog » Sat Jul 31, 2010 9:34 pm

and they refused to pay attention to the mistakes made by others in the past. Everybody studies Napoleon, except maybe for the Germans, everybody who has studied Napoleon knows what happened to the Grand Army in Russia. What happened to the German Army in Russia is not all that dissimilar.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby klibben » Sat Jul 31, 2010 10:22 pm

I completely agree (as will most historians) JYD,

Another example is looking at the US and Soviet occupations of Afghanistan.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby Junk Yard Dog » Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:11 am

We can hope for the best in the current situation, but things are looking grim at this point. Everything old is new again....because some idiot didn't bother to check on why it was abandoned in the first place.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby klibben » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:31 pm

It's not that we can't kill them - we can. What we can't do is occupy the country while providing safety and liberties to the people who live there. We could easily kill everyone, or oppress them. It is trying to be the nice guy that makes you finish last.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby Junk Yard Dog » Mon Aug 02, 2010 2:35 pm

One gets tired of being the nice guy, put me in charge of it, right now I am in the perfect frame of mind to visit upon them the wrath of God.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby bunkysdad » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:03 am

Yeah, and make it legal to bring back battlefield rifles. Think of the old Enfields you could find! :shock:
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby Junk Yard Dog » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:54 am

The above are a few links in my archives, not sure if they are all still good, some good stuff in there, Triumph of the Will is in there as well, I believe the topic came up recently. I have hundreds of WW2 cartoons stashed away, but not all of them are available on you tube.
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby bunkysdad » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:37 am

I have never seen these before. I have also never seen "Why we Fight" videos. They are well made and I subscribed to them so I can go back and watch them. Thanks for the links. 8)
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Re: Germany, Resources, especially Food

Postby Junk Yard Dog » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:11 am

These are all available on DVD, the Why We fight series is just that, seven short films promoting the allied cause during the war. Frank Capra was heavily influenced by films like Triumph of the will, and you will find footage lifted from the German film in this series, first shown to the US military, and then to the rest of the country to promote the war effort.
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